Ignition Boasics

So, got through the DMV maze and I have plates and registration!!!

Of course, now my '67 won't start

Problem:
I turn the ignition key and nothing happens.  The idiot lights both go on but not even a click at the starter.

What this means to me.  The battery reads almost 12 volts and does not decrease when I turn the ignition so I think the battery is good.

Also:
It has done this in the past (while I was figuring out the carb problem) by behaving this same way one day but then starting and running fine the very next day.  It even happened once where it wouldn't click or turn in the morning but started/ran fine a few hours later.

I've checked every connection I can find as well as the fuses (start with the basics, right?)

What do I do next?

Thank you - hoping to get this thing running so I can show up at an event and meet the people on this board!

Pat

My 70 has had past issues where it wouldn't crank, and I would have to try a few times before it would. It got really bad after a while, and I replaced the starter. It worked great for 3 years, and it started doing the same thing again. I replaced the starter again, and have had no issues since. But that was less than a month ago that I swapped it out.

Try this first:

Put a voltmeter on your ignition connection at the starter (only getting power when key is turned), and have someone turn the key, see what the voltage is. If you're still at 12, it tells you it's the starter... if there is no voltage then you know it is a problem elsewhere, then just start checking voltage at all the connections back to the ignition switch.

First, 'boasics'?!?! Sorry about that!

Second, I think I tried your suggestion and saw a voltage drop from ~12 to ~3 when the ignition was turned all the way.

I'll check again since I can't remember if I had voltage when the key was 'off', so I might not have had my meter on the right spots.

Thanks!

I had a similar issue, when I got my 72 bug. I finally cleand all the connections on the fuse block, with a fingernail file. I also replaces half of the crimp connectors onthe wires.
On my old bug way back when I made a hard sterting switch that made a very short path from the battery to the starter. Now there is a!! hard start relay kit. Clip1 has them. I know I have seen them other places also.

The previous owner of May had installed a relay in the starter wiring. I think they refer to these as a 'hard-start relay mod'. Anyways, she would do the same thing, crank, not crank. While cruising in Santa Barbara one weekend the relay finally gave up the ghost and had to be replaced.

So David's advice is spot on. Check the voltage at the starter and if it drops work your way backwards...

Hey Pat, completely off topic but what does the "rockets" in your screen name refer to?? Breck

Thanks for the tips - I haven't gotten back under the car to try anything yet.  Maybe this afternoon.

Someone also recommended arcing across the starter solenoid to see what happens.  So, let's say I do that and the starter works and the engine cranks and fires up.  Do I replace the solenoid at that point?  And what if it doesn't work?  What would that mean?  (And here I thought I was so smart . . . )

Breck:

About my handle - I used to make drugs (legal pharmaceuticals to be exact) and now I make rockets (same company, different division.)  I'd tell you more, but then I'd have to kill you.

drugsnrockets wrote:

Thanks for the tips - I haven't gotten back under the car to try anything yet.  Maybe this afternoon.

Someone also recommended arcing across the starter solenoid to see what happens.  So, let's say I do that and the starter works and the engine cranks and fires up.  Do I replace the solenoid at that point?  And what if it doesn't work?  What would that mean?  (And here I thought I was so smart . . . )

Breck:

About my handle - I used to make drugs (legal pharmaceuticals to be exact) and now I make rockets (same company, different division.)  I'd tell you more, but then I'd have to kill you.

LOL!! The reason that I ask is that I am a High Power Rocketeer and was just wondering if you dabbled.

replace the wire from the key to the starter, often times this wire has heat damage & does not carry enough current to kick the solenoid. Adding a relay also will solve this, but a new piece of wire does the trick, & is cheaper, less hassle

IF IT HAS STARTED SEVERAL TIMES JUST FINE (NO WEIRD NOISED FROM STARTER OR ENGINE) AND SOMETIMES DOESNT TURN OVER AND ONLY GIVES YOU A CLICK, CHECK YOUR BATTERY CONNECTIONS FIRST. MAKE SURE THEY ARE CLEAN OF ANY CORROSION AND ARE TIGHT.

JUST A SIDE NOTE: A FULLY CHARGED BATTERY SHOULD HAVE 12.6 VOLTS IN IT. SO IF YOURS ONLY HAS 12 VOLTS ITS GETTING TIRED OR NOT GETTING A PROPER CHARGE. IF THE VOLTAGE DROPS BELOW 9 VOLTS DURING THE CRANKING OVER (STARTING OF THE CAR) THE BATTERY IS PROBABLY BAD IF EVERYTHING ELSE IS GOOD.

IF YOU DONT HAVE A REMOTE STARTER BUTTON GO GET ONE FOR LIKE $5 OR LESS I BELIEVE AT HARBOR FRIEGHT.

CLAMP RED TO THE BATTERY POST ON THE STARTER AND THE BLACK ON THE "SWITCH" WIRE CONNECTION ON THE SOLENOID. ARCING ACROSS THERE WITH A WRENCH MAY WORK BUT COULD ALSO WELD ITSELF TO THE POSTS AND BURN UP A GOOD STARTER.

WITH KEY ON OR OFF (ON IT WILL START, OFF IT WILL JUST TURN THE ENGINE OVER BUT NOT START) HIT THE BUTTON. IF THE STARTER AND ENGINE TURN OVER THAN THE BATTERY, STARTER AND ENDPLAY SHOULD BE GOOD FOR THIS PROCESS.

SO THAT LEAVES ONLY THE "STARTER SIGNAL" WIRE OR THE IGNITION SWITCH ITSELF.

THE SIGNAL WIRE GOES FROM THE SOLENOID UP ALONG THE TUNNEL UP TO THE IGNITION SWITCH. THERE MAYBE A FACTORY SPLICE SOMEPLACE IN THE MIDDLE UNDER THE CARPET OR RUBBER MATS IF YOU HAVE ANY. THE SPLICE ON MY 69 FASTBACK IS BETWEEN THE PASSANGER FRONT SEAT AND THE TUNNEL. ON MY 72 BUG ITS ALONG THE TUNNEL BUT ONLY LIKE 6 INCHES IN FRONT OF THE BACK SEAT.

HOOK YOUR STARTER BUTTON UP AT THAT POINT (RED CLAMPED ON BATTERY + AND BLACK CLAMPED TO SIGNAL WIRE). IF AFTER HITTING THE BUTTON IT STILL TURNS OVER, TRY AGAIN AT THE CONNECTION OF THAT WIRE TO THE IGNITION SWITCH (YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO FIND 12V FROM THE FUSE PANEL FOR THE RED SIDE OF THE STARTER BUTTON). STILL WORKS???

ITS THE IGNITION SWITCH. IVE REPLACED THIS TWICE IN MY 72, ONCE IN MY 69, AND IN ABOUT 5-7 CUSTOMER CARS OVER THE LAST 4 YEARS.

DOESNT WORK AT IGNITION SWITCH??? ITS IN THE WIRING (EITHER AT THE MIDDLE CONNECTION (CLEAN CONTACTS AND TRY AGAIN) OR THE WIRE MAY BE CORRODED OR BROKEN SOMEPLACE).

HOPE THIS HELP YOU OUT.

I had this problem with the 64. It was the ignition switch.

In my '67 Sqbk stock replacement ignition switches are $$$, so I bolted in a generic ignition switch to the under side of the dash using an existing hole. Makes it really easy to access the wiring as well for troubleshooting.

damn talk a about making a big deal out of nothing. by the length of this thread, i'd assume it was an explanation of quantum physics. the male to female ratio is much favorable in texas.....     

Turned out to be the starter solenoid.

All's good now - thank you for everyone's input - I learned a lot about troubleshooting electrical issues!

See you on the road!